The Path to Gold 003 | Social Issues within the Health & Fitness Space

Chauntae Gold (00:00):

Hi everybody, it's Chauntae Gold here also known as the pathtogold on Instagram. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening as I talk about one of my passions, which is applied behavior analysis within the health and fitness space.

Chauntae Gold (00:26):

It's been a while. I kind of went on a hiatus there for a little bit after the first episode for various reasons. One, I got married a couple of weekends ago, so it was kind of busy planning and preparing for that. But also, and more importantly, it was mostly due to the social climate that we've all been experiencing these past couple of months in terms of our, you know, racism and our black community. And I kind of just wanted to take a step back and process everything that has, that was going on, um, and take some time to learn and observe what is going on with our society and within our field. So that is why I, you know, it took me so long to do the second episode, but during that time I was talking to one of my close friends, Trina Mendoza, she also works in the health and fitness space and she's also a BCBA.

Chauntae Gold (01:29):

So we were talking pretty much every day, just, you know, kind of going back and forth and exchanging what we were observing, uh, within our field. And so I decided to invite her on here to talk about some important topics. So hi, Trina!

Trina Mendoza (01:45):

Hi, how's it going?

Chauntae Gold (01:45):

Pretty good, Trina is gonna, you know, start off by sharing her background, how she got into the field, uh, her business. Uh, you probably know her from Instagram as data-driven performance. So she's going to talk a little bit about that before we dive into our topics today.

Trina Mendoza (02:04):

All right. Um, so hello. My name is Trina Mendoza and I run data driven performance on Instagram and Facebook. So I'll start by talking about how I got into this field. So like a lot of people that fall into this field and fall in love with this field, I started out with no previous awareness or even knowledge of what applied behavior analysis was, or even really individuals with autism. I had no experience working with developmental disabilities or anything like that. So when I was a senior at Sacramento state, I decided that it was about time that I found something that was relating to my college education. I had just worked a bunch of retail jobs and dr. Jane Howard had come into one of my psychology classes and was saying that they were interviewing for painter technicians at the time. So I decided to go interview there. And, um, they explained that I would be in the home one-on-one by working with a child with autism and teaching them skills and working on their problem behavior. And honestly, it really kind of scared me and I ended up not working there just because I had no experience with children. I had no experience with children on the autism spectrum or developmental disabilities, and I didn't want to be alone in somebody's house, um, working with a child. So I ended up not doing that. Um, and a couple months later I was working at a large, large corporate gym in Sacramento. And one of my coworkers was telling me how her sister was a behavior analyst at that same company that I had previously interviewed at. And, um, she was running a onsite on like a school program, like a small, like a small school setting. And I ended up going to interview with her again, and I liked that there were always like staff and behavior analysts on site, and somebody could help me if I needed help or had a question.

Trina Mendoza (04:02):

And so that's when I ended up working there. And I've been here ever since learning about ABA and like, how to do DTT and how to praise behaviors that you wanted to see increase and how to provide reinforcement? Um, I was still working at the gym also, and I just found a lot of things that were similar with the two, like changing health behavior and changing behavior of an individual, you know, diagnosed with autism. Um, so I really saw like a lot of overlap there and I've always had a lot of interest in applying ABA to health and fitness, even though I've always worked with individuals with autism. So, um, data-driven performance started out just as like a passion project of mine to post about how ABA can be applied to like weightlifting nutrition, health, and fitness. So, yeah, that's how I got started. And I provide one-on-one coaches to athletes with just general health and fitness goals, individuals that compete in weight class sports. So like weight class management, and just like overall health and fitness goal setting and planning.

Chauntae Gold (05:09):

Very cool. Awesome. Thank you for sharing. So just to give you guys a little background guys Trina and I know each other, we obviously we know each other, I invited her on here, but we met each other on Instagram. We have a mutual friend who is a power lifter, and Trina found me on Instagram. And at that time I was experimenting with Olympic weightlifting and Trina is an Olympic weightlifter. And so she reached out and we've been friends ever since. So it's been what, like three years now? Three or four years.

Trina Mendoza (05:48):

Yeah. Three or four years now.

Chauntae Gold (05:50):

Yeah, really cool. So obviously we talk every day about all the things, behavior and health and fitness and, uh, just, you know, everything, you know, that we're, we obviously have a lot of things in common. So, um, that is how we became friends. So now we're going to dive into our topics. We're going to talk, we're going to talk about a variety of different things, but they're all related, I promise. Uh, I want to start the conversation by talking about racism and how racism exists in subtle ways within our field and within the systems that we occupy. Uh, I'm also going to highlight some organizations within our field. Who've done an excellent job at addressing these issues and have committed to tackle racism within our field. And then we're going to dive into the health and fitness portion, how racism exists within health and wellness space.

Chauntae Gold (06:49):

And then we're going to share some, uh, solutions that we've come up with to help kind of dismantle these, you know, these problems and we'll go from there. So what people in 2020 think racism is. So I'm going to go through this list and I'm sure you guys, you know, will think this too. And I don't want to say that these things don't exist. These ideas of racism absolutely exist in our country today. So for example, like racist, derogatory language from a nation, confederate flags, the KKK, Nazi tattoos, you know, hate crimes that, for example, that we've seen in Charlottesville. And like I said, obviously these things are still happening in our society today, but it's re it's really easy to miss when it's not those behaviors, right. It's really easy to miss when it's not just like in your face, you know, KKK with like the Confederate flags and all that.

Chauntae Gold (07:52):

So I created a list here on, you know, just some subtle ways that racism exists with, you know, within our field specifically. So under-representation is a huge one. People of color are widely underrepresented in our agencies and in leadership teams, within our agencies and, and, you know, various special interest groups. Uh, that's what we've been noticing lately. And, you know, during the blackout Tuesday, when you know that whole week, some other things that I would hear as well would be, you know, people of color would be silenced or not taken seriously when issues about race or injustice are brought up in leadership teams or meetings. Also our conference speakers, we have to really think about the demographic of our conference speakers. And I really don't see diversity or larger representation of people of color. When, you know, we go to conferences, there's a lot of, uh, white speakers and the rooms are typically filled from wall to wall.

Chauntae Gold (08:59):

So that's something that I personally have noticed and I'm sure Trina has as well. And then just some other ones at the top of my head are our time and attention as behavior analysts, where that goes, when we go to these conferences, like I just said, conference speakers who have white speakers, are usually, the rooms are usually filled. And then the very few people of color speaking there's, it's usually not like that. So we have to always be mindful of where our time and attention are going to, and making sure that we are filing the seats for, you know, people of color who are speaking as well, because that matters. And then of course, representation within the health and fitness space, and we're going to get into that a little bit later, but first I want to talk about some organizations and special interest groups, which again, who have made the effort to address racism.

Chauntae Gold (09:55):

These are people that I highly suggest, not people, but these are organizations that I highly suggest following. And if you are in the market for CEUs, uh, or learning about diversity and racism and how to, you know, uh, be a part of the solutions moving forward, I would highly recommend you guys, uh, following these, these groups if you're not already. So the Latino ABA, um, so LABA, um, the Do Better professional development movement, they have excellent information, not just obviously about racism, but about just being a better, uh, uh, clinical practitioner expanding our creativity in, you know, our fields, the behavior bitches podcasts, of course, uh, they have done an excellent job with elevating voices of elevating the voices of people of color. Um, they've been pretty consistent with that across the board, BABA of course, black applied behavior analysis and the ABA task force.

Chauntae Gold (10:58):

They have been coming out with so many different types of CEUs talking about, uh, social injustice and racism and solutions, uh, you know, obviously from a behavior analytic lens. And so, uh, I've been really enjoying their, their, um, their meetings and their CEU events. It's been really great. And then also there's Cal ABA. And then of course the beautiful humans podcast, which that is, they've always been a social justice podcast and, um, hosted by two behavioral analysts obviously. But yeah, so I just wanted to highlight those organizations. They have been doing an excellent job with just tackling these issues, uh, and you know, raising awareness within our community. So saying that, I don't know if you wanted to add anything to that Trina or,

Trina Mendoza (11:53):

No, I think you listed what I've been following as well. So,

Chauntae Gold (11:57):

Yeah, I figured. Okay, cool. So now we want to talk about how racism exists within the health and wellness space. Uh, obviously since Trina and I are BCBAs who specialize in health and wellness, we want to talk about how racism directly impacts people of color in this space. So Trina is going to talk about some general barriers we've noticed during our time in this field.

Trina Mendoza (12:23):

So the first barrier that may affect people of color, being able to engage in health and fitness behaviors, um, are just the general cost of gyms. So a general gym, um, where you do your own thing might run from anywhere from $20 to $60 a month. Um, however, you would have to basically teach yourself how to exercise or pay, um, a personal trainer to teach you if you're not really aware of what you're doing and you know how to execute exercises with correct form, so you don't get hurt, um, or you could potentially buy a program online. Um, but everything, this is all comes at a cost. And also you could also go to a more specialized gym, like a weightlifting gym or a powerlifting gym or CrossFit. Uh, and those often come at a price tag that's usually over a hundred dollars a month, which can be, can get costly.

Trina Mendoza (13:18):

You could also work out at home, but, um, if you need equipment that can also be very expensive. So a second barrier is that the location of these gyms typically are not in the inner city, they're in more middle-class cities. So there might not be a gym in an area that's more urban. Um, and so another point I wanted to touch on that can be a barrier to engaging in fitness behaviors. Um, you know, a gym is not necessarily needed to work out. Um, but if you live in a neighborhood that where you don't feel safe being outside where you could go for a run or walk or go work out in a park, um, that is potentially, you know, a barrier. I know Chauntae, you've talked about when you lived in Korea town, just feeling unsafe, like walking from your car to your apartment. Um, and the same thing goes like when I used to live in long beach, at that point, I was training for like a full marathon. I don't, I don't even run now, but at that time I was, and, um, I really had to go out of my way to find places that I felt safe to exercise, pretty much.

Chauntae Gold (14:32):

Right, yeah. That's a huge one. Yeah, like Trina mentioned before when my husband and I first moved to Los Angeles, we went, we moved to Korea town because there was some cheap housing over there, and cheap for a reason, I mean it was a terrible neighborhood. We had to pay like $500 for parking that was like half a mile away from our apartment. And it was just very unsafe. Um, I got harassed every single day that I walked out of my apartment and, you know, as a woman that could just feel really uncomfortable. And so I just couldn't imagine staying in an environment like that for so long. I can only imagine that if I was, if I had no way to get out of that environment, I would, the last thing on my mind is working out. You know what I mean? The last thing on my mind is going to be going for a walk because I need to be healthy. What's going to be on my mind is staying inside, so I'm not harassed all day. So yeah, that is a hundred percent a huge barrier with unsafe neighborhoods and, uh, health.

Trina Mendoza (15:42):

So, another barrier is just the overall cost of food and accessibility to healthy food. So a lot of the times these areas that are more urban or inner city are deemed food deserts, meaning that they don't really have access to fresh produce and more like unprocessed food. Um, typically they'll just their main place where they can buy food are like a corner store that just has like a bunch of snacks and like processed foods, soda, everything in a package that doesn't, isn't perishable. So really like that accessibility to healthy food is definitely a barrier in more urban areas and just the cost of food. Um, so if you live in an urban area and you don't have a car, it's going to cost you some money, you know, taking an Uber to go somewhere where you can buy fresh produce. And then when you get there, you know, maybe it's a little bit more expensive because it's in a more affluent area. So that's definitely a barrier to, you know, the nutrition aspect of health and fitness.

Chauntae Gold (16:41):

Yeah, for sure.

Trina Mendoza (16:43):

So another barrier is just the general, like health and fitness marketing. A lot of the times is just health and fitness programs and, you know, products are a lot of the time marketed to middle or upper class. And in general, just I think to a more white client, clientele. And a lot of the time nutrition that's really like labeled as being healthy, like whole foods or organic, non-GMO, vegan, um, those really come with a higher price tag. Um, so that's definitely a barrier.

Chauntae Gold (17:22):

Yeah. And they're just, yeah, what Trina was saying earlier. They're just marketed towards white people. And I, it's funny because, um, if you follow me on Instagram or either of us, we are not vegan. Um, we don't practice veganism and, you know, for a really long time, I really did think that it was like a white thing, but I'm just being honest and ever since, you know, the, you know, um, the black lives matter movement and everything that's been going on and I've been, you know, seeing a lot more, um, black vegans and the history of, you know, how they have always, they, they, there's a community of them that had always been around, uh, practicing veganism for a really long time. And a lot of the things that they say is it's not as, you know, expensive as what people are marketing it as it's actually very affordable. And, um, again, this always goes back to lack of representation. Um, and I think that's going to be our theme today because it's so important for people to be, a variety of different people from different demographics to be represented within, uh, you know, the health and wellness space, just so people know that, okay, I can, I can do this. You know what I mean? Like I see somebody who looks like me, who's adopting these healthy behaviors and I want, you know, it motivates people to want to be like that too.

Trina Mendoza (18:53):

And definitely going back to the marketing piece. One thing I was thinking about too, is that if it's marketed to a middle or upper class, you know, white individual, you know, maybe other groups that may be interested in eating healthier or, you know, eating vegan or eating more organic food, they might not even be exposed to that kind of media. So they really aren't gaining the same access to just like general information about those products.

Chauntae Gold (19:22):

Right. Right. Yeah. Like I said, this wasn't until blackout Tuesday where all of these organizations and black people of color talking about health and veganism, and I didn't even know they were out there just because I'm, I haven't come across their pages. And then, I mean, if you, again, if you guys follow us on Instagram, you know that Trina and I did a sticker donation, we made, uh, anti-racism stickers and the money that we, uh, raised for the sticker sales, uh, we found this organization LA called supermarket, which was a, an organization that produces a whole nutritious foods and sells it at a low cost for low income communities here in LA. So, yeah, I mean, they're out there. I mean, we just, again, we just need to make sure that they are in the forefront of, you know, what we are consuming in the media.

Trina Mendoza (20:17):

Definitely.

Chauntae Gold (20:18):

Okay. So I guess it's my turn, we are going to go, uh, and talk about lack of education and school lunches. I kind of wanted to take a little turn into this. And, you know, when I first, uh, started researching, you know, lack of nutrition education within low income communities, I started to actually find a lot of organizations that actually provide a lot of education, free education for, uh, low income families. And so I wanted to highlight those because I think, um, not a lot of people know about them. So for example, uh, the program women, infants, and children, they provide nutritious food education, breastfeeding support, and referrals to healthcare and social services for low income families. And in 2018, almost 7 million women, infants, and children received benefits. And this is funded by the U S Senate and house appropriations committee. And I saw something on Facebook the other day that said the black Panther party started this organization.

Trina Mendoza (21:36):

I didn't know that.

Chauntae Gold (21:37):

I didn't know that either. And I couldn't, I, I'm just saying what I saw on Facebook. So I did not fact check that. So if you're listening to this and you're curious about it, feel free to, you know, investigate further. But because, you know, I mean, what we see on Facebook can get a little iffy. So I'm not, I'm not saying that this is a fact, but I just saw it, and I thought I'd mention it here. I'm definitely gonna look into that later. Um, so yeah, I thought that was probably,

Trina Mendoza (22:03):

I'll be Googling that later.

Chauntae Gold (22:04):

Yeah. So will I, I didn't have time before this episode, but you know, we all have Google, so feel free to do your research after this. There's also SNAP. So the supplemental nutrition assistance program, and this is obviously a hundred percent funded by the federal government. This is also known as food stamps. They just label it differently. Um, and then there's the national school lunch program, and this is a federally assisted meal program operating in public and non-profit, private schools and residential childcare institutions.

Chauntae Gold (22:42):

And this program provides nutritionally balanced low to no cost lunches to children each school day. And this is so important because children deserve whole nutritious foods. I mean, this, this was something that I, I was starting to get really, well I am still concerned about it because we, we, uh, go into schools. We do ABA, uh, inner in school districts here in Los Angeles, uh, both Trina and I, and every single school that I've gone to, the nutrition for the kids who receive lunches, there is absolutely horrendous. Um, and so, you know, that is also something to investigate a little bit further on why these specific schools are not, don't have the money to have nutrition, nutritious foods, um, cause these programs are available. So I'm not, I'm not exactly sure why not all schools are able to have these same opportunities, but it's so important for children to have, um, nutritious, you know, balanced meals at school.

Chauntae Gold (23:54):

And then there's this other program that I absolutely loved. Um, it's a nonprofit organization here in LA called SeeLA that's S E E L A, sustainable economic enterprise of Los Angeles. And they have two programs within this organization. And one of them is called bring the farmer to your school program, which is exactly what the title says. A farmer, a farmer comes to the school brings, you know, what, uh, like vegetables or any other produce that they farm. And they educate the children on how, how to.

Trina Mendoza (24:33):

Grow food and vegatables and stuff like that.

Chauntae Gold (24:35):

Yes, exactly. They educate the children on how to grow food, um, how it's farmed, how it's sustained, all of those things. And, uh, I thought that was really cool because, uh, they paired education with the, with the food itself. And then also there's a free nutrition education program for low income families. So they can come to a center and they do nutrition classes. And, uh, not only do they do the educational portion, but they teach them how to cook. And so I thought that was a great program. And again, this is free if you just go in there and apply, they have that readily available. And so again, I just wanted to highlight there the programs that are out there to help aid the disparity of low income families, not being able to access these, these privileges that a lot of us get to have. So again, these are just some of the programs that I've found useful. I, you know, as, as much as these programs have been helping thousands of families, there are still a huge number of families who are not aware of these programs. As you know, I talked about in my last episode on the obesity rate here in America is up by 40%.

Chauntae Gold (25:59):

And so clearly, um, you know, there's a huge portion of us who are, are not educated in nutrition and need the, you know, need programs like these. Um, and you know, unfortunately large part of that 40% is occupied by black and Brown people of color. Um, so, so there, there is some disconnect there. Um, perhaps I'm assuming that a lot of them don't know about these programs or what organizations out there that can give them free access to education and, you know, learning the basic skills of cooking and grocery shopping and, um, food choices, and things like that. Another barrier that we talked about is the less exposure to extracurricular activities due to single parent homes and parents working, uh, multiple jobs. And so we know that when kids or youth are left at home for long periods of time, without parental supervision, that they're more likely to seek, you know, activities that are probably not in their best interests.

Chauntae Gold (27:17):

So obviously, uh, I think a big solution to this is, again, it kind of goes back to representation. These kids need, uh, people to look up to. So they need teachers, they need tutors who look like them. They need, um, uh, law enforcement people to look like them. They need, they just need more, we just need more representation of people of color in multiple, uh, occupations. So youth can look up to that and know that, you know, there are better things for them out there. Um, but then again, also we just need more like afterschool educational and activity programs that they can do, uh, which I'm sure they're out there. Uh, we just need to do a better job at

Trina Mendoza (28:12):

Having those be available for, for kids in inner cities.

Chauntae Gold (28:17):

Yes, exactly. We just need to structure it in a way that's, you know, easily accessible. Um, so yeah, we are gonna go into, oh, Trina, did you have anything to add to that?

Trina Mendoza (28:31):

I guess just that it, you know, that can be a barrier in itself when, um, you know, your parents are working and, um, you know, you don't really, sometimes children that live in homes where, uh, you know, I've seen this within my own clients over the years, um, you know, lower income families where both parents are really busy and working sometimes, you know, a lot of the other children take on a lot of the responsibility of a parent. So they might not have as much free time to even do anything, you know, like go play a sport or, you know, go play outside, um, since they are taking on some of the rules that, you know, their parent would do otherwise if they were home.

Chauntae Gold (29:17):

Right, yeah. That's a really great point. Alright, we are going to go into some solutions to help improve, uh, you know, minority groups and, uh, low income communities and families. So Trina is gonna start with that.

Trina Mendoza (29:35):

Alright, so, um, one solution that we're talking about, um, Chauntae and I were discussing, was just increasing education as far as like health and fitness and nutrition, and just doing a better job within the health and fitness space of normalizing basic, just basic nutrition, basic health. Um, so a lot of the times when you scroll social media and you look at an account of somebody who has a huge following in the health and fitness space, um, a lot of the times when they post their meals, like they're super nice looking and they're super fancy and they're using like all organic vegetables and just like really complicated extravagant meals. And really, you know, that's not necessary to meet your health and fitness goals or just to be healthy, you know, really you don't need to be eating like all organic, non-GMO, free range, you know, meat, grass-fed beef, uh, really, you know, I think it would be nice to see more people in the health and fitness space, just normalizing the very basic skills, like how to, um, you know, add more vegetables to your diet, how to add more lean protein to your diet, you know, how to make like a more balanced meal. Um, I think those kinds of tips, um, really would be more beneficial for a general population.

Chauntae Gold (30:59):

Yeah, for sure. I, a hundred percent agree. Um, again, because we, you know, when we're trying to think of longterm solutions, we already know that one of the solutions need to needs to be within the public health, you know, within public health and restructuring, um, the infrastructure and communities and things like that. So that is going to take a long time before we start to see some improvement. And in the meantime, the only thing that, you know, low income families have access to are the little markets down the street or the gas station down the street. So how were you going to teach them to manage their nutrition with the stuff that they have available? It is, there is a, there is a way there's a, there's a way. And it, again, it kind of goes back to what Trina was saying, is normalizing things like frozen vegetables and canned vegetables and just simple things like not, not everything has to have a fancy label on them. It could just be, you know, the things that you have available. So, um, yes, that is for sure a big one.

Trina Mendoza (32:09):

So another idea for a solution on how to include, you know, people of color in the health and fitness space is just to elevate their voices and give them more representation. So health and fitness is still largely dominated by white individuals and typically white males, but just in general, um, giving, like if you are a person that has a large platform within the health and fitness space sharing and supporting the work of people of color, I think is really important and, um, giving them a platform to be heard and to be known also.

Chauntae Gold (32:47):

Yes, yes, huge. That is huge.

Trina Mendoza (32:50):

So another solution, um, for health and fitness within ABA is just, I think that there needs to be more research done. There isn't much research right now with, within our field for health and fitness. Um, and typically a lot of the studies. Um, if you look into studies that are looking at increasing fitness behavior, like increasing your steps, typically it's done with college students, but it would be great to see more research done with a general population or underprivileged, you know, children, or just a wider range of, um, research participants, um, I think is definitely needed.

Chauntae Gold (33:30):

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of the research, um, that we've read is a lot of this using the same things like the Fitbit's and it's, you know, a small representation of like college students and, um, you know, very limited with, you know, who they're, who they're, um, studying. So we just need a lot more representation and creativity in research. Now, I want to talk about how we as behavior analysts can do our part and, you know, within our field to help improve, uh, overall health and how we can drive change within, you know, um, health and wellness and racism. So some things on the top of my mind are expanding our field outside of autism. This is huge. And some, you know, some fields that I'm thinking of is public health, politics, health, and wellness. These are huge spaces that definitely need our help to address racism, to help, um, uh, fix some of the problems that we've been talking about today.

Chauntae Gold (34:47):

Another thing, volunteering and building rapport with staff to share our knowledge about behavior analysis, holding our agencies and leaders accountable for addressing racism and diversity in the workplace. This is huge. And I'm sure all of us have received those emails from our agencies about, um, everything that's been going on. And so, you know, we, I think that it's part of our responsibility to hold them accountable to those words and just make sure that they are doing their part as agencies to make sure that they are helping people feel heard within our communities. Donating is a big one. If you are able to donating to youth outreach and organizations that are already doing the work. So we don't have to go out there and reinvent the wheel. There are already people who are putting their time and effort and work into, um, helping the black community and people of color.

Chauntae Gold (35:47):

So like black social workers and mental health counselors, black educators, uh, again, I'm gonna go back to representation. It's so important that we have a variety of, uh, successful people of color represented in high paying jobs. We need those models for our youth. And so I think that if we, as citizens, you know, want to donate, those are the organizations and those are the people and jobs that we need to donate to people who are already doing the work in these spaces. And then another one that I thought of was hiring people of color to speak and educate employees and agencies on various topics outside of race and diversity. And I said that specifically, because I noticed that there have been a lot of, um, black women and men hired by different people to educate us on race and diversity, but they obviously know things, are very well educated on things outside of this topic. So making sure again, that they are represented for various topics outside of just race. Do you have anything else to add Trina?

Trina Mendoza (36:56):

No. I definitely think that last point is really important because I know after, you know, everything happened and a lot of agencies like with even within our own field, were really looking to, you know, hire and do some like cultural competence training. Sometimes personally, I am a little bit turned off when I watch this training and it's like a white woman telling me how to be culturally competent, but at the same time, I think we also, like you said, need to make sure that we're also giving these same people that are going to train us on how to be culturally competent because they live the life as a colored person, we also need to give them an opportunity to educate us on other topics that they are also probably experts at.

Chauntae Gold (37:46):

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's really important, definitely. All right guys. So I think that is our, you know, everything that we've got today, and I hope that we were able to deliver some useful knowledge and opinions and information on how we can do better as behavior analysts within our fields. Thank you so much, Trina, for coming on here and doing this with me, it was so fun.

Trina Mendoza (38:13):

Thanks for having me.

Chauntae Gold (38:14):

Yes, of course. Alright, guys, I will see you and talk to you later.