BOOST U! 001 | From Student to Study-er: How to Start Prepping for the Exam?

Maddie Duke (00:11):
Welcome to Boost You an exam prep podcast for Aspiring Behavior Analyst. My name is Maddie Duke, and I'm a member of the Boost Exam Prep team at ABA Technologies. With me today is one of my coworkers, Corey Robertson. So, welcome, Corey. Thanks for joining me today. I'm really excited for this conversation. I think, I hope our students are excited to hear what we have to say and that we can offer something of benefit to our students. So, I guess just kind of like, let's just kind of jump into it. The point of this episode, we kind of wanna talk about what comes after graduation. I feel like we often talk about graduation as this really big milestone, and then certification exam is that next milestone, but oftentimes there's a time period in between, and maybe we don't talk about what happens between those two milestones. So let's kind of start by going through just what changes. You're no longer a student, now, your focus is on studying for that exam. What does that look like? Why is it different?
Corey Robertson (01:28):
Well, I think there's an enormous sense of relief and maybe a reclaiming of time. In my case, I know a lot of people will relate to this. I was working full-time going to graduate school. When I went, it was in Orlando program with Florida Tech. So it was mostly Friday mornings and Saturdays or Friday afternoons and Saturday mornings. And so suddenly going from being worried about school and work and my family to just work and family was nice. And I felt like there was a big chunk of time that I had back that I had to figure out, you know, what to do with and, and where to, you know, address those efforts. But there, and definitely a sense of accomplishment if you're going through a degree program. But even if you're in a continuing education format, you know, if you're just doing a certificate program and you've already had your degree, there's still a sense of that accomplishment of finishing something that you set out to do.
Corey Robertson (02:21):
And, and then of course, there's that final maybe hurdle of, of passing the BACB certification exam and students focus a lot on that exam. Like it is the only gateway or the only part of becoming certified. And it, really isn't, it's just that last hurdle because the majority of the work that I think that we're doing is in our coursework and in our supervised field work especially. And if you've had a good experience in both of those areas, that exam hopefully won't be too large of a hurdle. Right. It's just that last, that last step. But a big difference I think between, you know, the, the process of being a student and then that post-graduation sort of study period is that you're not, you shouldn't be anyway, building acquisition. You know, when we look at learning, there are different stages of learning, and that acquisition phase is where we're acquiring those skills for the first time.
Corey Robertson (03:18):
And that can, that's certainly challenging, but at this point, you know, students want to be maintaining, generalizing, and also building fluency. So maybe I've learned some things, but because I don't use that language regularly, or I don't do that particular practice often, or I'm not, you know, whatever it is you know, it's that repetition. And so I think there's a lot of sort of mass practice that, that folks want to engage in to get ready for that, for that assessment Right, of mastery. Yeah. Which is really what that is.
Maddie Duke (03:50):
I really appreciate you bringing up supervised field work. Just so our listener knows, I graduated just a couple of months ago. I haven't actually tested yet myself. And when collecting my fieldwork hours, I worked in a clinic for one semester, and then I worked at ABA technologies for the remaining year and a half-ish that I was finishing up those hours. So I used a lot of behavioral principles through writing about them, teaching about them, identifying them in everyday life. But when I look at the task list and specific tasks, so for an for example, running an MSWO, that feels very separate from my field work experience because I wasn't doing those things directly with clients. I've never actually run an MSWO with an actual client, so it feels very different for me. But that may be different for our listeners. It's kind of like you think of your like, restricted hours as kind of your like classwork hours, and then your unrestricted hours are kind of like your studying time where it's the same or similar skills, just a little bit elevated. There's a little bit more responsibility that you have to take. There's a little bit more decision making that you have to do, but that doesn't mean that you're going to fail or that you don't have the ability to do so, it's just a little bit different, but it's still an important thing.
Corey Robertson (05:22):
I think it's, for me, it's always been about taking the book knowledge and the academic information and learning how to put it into action. Yeah. And I think, you know, if we take a step back and we look at the purpose of all of this, it helps kind of put it into perspective. And the purpose is to demonstrate competency when people screw this up. And I hope my language isn't too offensive to some people I'll use that word, but when, honestly, when people screw this up, people die, you know? Yeah. and I say that in our classes, especially when we talk about ethics, but I come back to that time and time again, and I think that's one of the things that Jose Martinez Diaz really instilled in those of us who are his direct students. And I hope that they, even students of the program now who are learning from us are, are getting that as well, which is the importance of why we're doing this and what's at risk.
Corey Robertson (06:14):
And what's at risk is people's safety. At the very most, at the extreme, right. Because we definitely have documentations of people losing their lives to incompetent practitioners. At the very least, you have a lack of progress, right? You're just not a good behavior analyst and you do kind of fail because you fail your clients, right? Because they're not making the gains that they need to. So all of this starts with that notion of, well, we need to make sure people know their stuff. How do we go about doing that? How do we assess that? And of course, the best way the surest way would be to observe the performance. But doing that on a massive scale for everyone who wants to become a behavior analyst is kind of challenging. So what we have finally you know, landed on is a multiple choice exam, right.
Corey Robertson (07:01):
Which tests academic knowledge. When you look at the BACB task list and the way that those objectives and those tasks are written, they all kind of facilitate assessment through those questions, right? You're going to use, you're gonna describe, you're gonna define and there's sometimes they're a little bit they're hard to, to assess. Some of those definitely look like they would be assessed better in a in field work, you know? So for example, how do I know that you can run a preference assessment? Well, the first step would be I ask you, Hey, Maddie, tell me how to run a preference assessment. And if you can't describe how to run a preference assessment, I feel pretty confident that you're not gonna be able to do it. But just because you can describe it doesn't necessarily mean that either.
Corey Robertson (07:46):
Right. but when you get into regulation of a profession, you have to show validity in the exam. You have to, you know, make sure there's no bias. And so that's where that multiple choice format comes in. 'cause You gotta have one answer. You can't be objective in or early days. It was actually short answer, and they would have two people read your response to a scenario and determine whether you gave a satisfactory response. And if the two people didn't agree, it was the third person I've talked to people who were reviewers in the old days. Yeah. They're still around. That's fascinating. And so, and that's how it was done. It was like, Hey, here's a situation. How would you handle this? And the person had to describe it, but you can't do that for 10,000 people a year. Right. That's not gonna work.
Corey Robertson (08:25):
And so that's, that's how we've gotten to this point. So tying that back together with, Hey, yes, we're learning the academics and we wanna make sure we understand in our terms, and we can, you know, answer multiple choice questions and things like that. But someone, and that's our BACB or BCBA supervisor is really responsible for looking at our performance and how we you know, show up every day at work and say, Hey, this person understands the concepts and principles of behavior analysis. They apply those strategies in an evidence-based manner and ethically, right. And those kinds of things. And so the supervised field work component is the biggest part of this. Restricted and unrestricted. I mentioned that, and I never can help myself from jumping on top of that because the perception of those requirements is still so off for so many people.
Corey Robertson (09:15):
Yeah. And the whole thing about restriction is it's the implementation of behavior plans. And that's because we didn't want people functioning as an RBT for 1500 to 2000 hours. And then suddenly someone says, oh, they can be BCBA now because they've been doing this thing. Because what behavior analysts have to do is so much beyond just the running of programs, right? We are developing those programs, we're assessing to try to develop those programs. We're training people on the implementation of those programs. We're communicating with stakeholders about those, and all those other things are critical components of our practice. And those are considered unrestricted hours. So they're not, they're the most important part, in my opinion, is the unrestricted hours and learning how to function as a professional and communicate. And and a lot of those lessons that we learn along the way.
Corey Robertson (10:02):
And when you talk to people who've been out in the field for a while, everybody's got their mistakes, stories that they can tell you, I've definitely got plenty of my own. And that's the purpose of that supervised field work is wait, you would make those mistakes, but the consequences aren't as severe 'cause Somebody's kind of watching out for you along the way. Right? They're, watching your back. So, you know, the experience part of it, and it's such a blessing to be able to work while you're going to school if you can. 'cause You can connect those concepts to real practice right away. Oh, this is why that works. Yeah. This is why we do this thing. This is why we choose mands first instead of teaching the names for things. Or this is why we, you know, use differential reinforcement, whatever it is. So if you can make those connections early, I think it helps with mastering those concepts. And I do talk to people who aren't able to work in the field right away as they begin coursework. And it's hard for them to relate those concepts to everyday practice to some degree.
Maddie Duke (10:57):
It brings up an interesting thought, makes me really think about my field work experience. I'm fully aware that I would not be competent in a clinic. Like, I haven't even walked inside of one since December of 2021. But like the most exposure that I've had to, like, I've been working for ABA Tech since January, 2022. Right? Like, I was learning about implementing programs and not like I was working here. I was writing test questions about what I was learning about, but I wasn't actually doing them. So it's just kind of a interesting thing for me to like think back on, like, interesting how, how, how's that?
Corey Robertson (11:46):
So, and I remember what the other thing was I was gonna say, which is being able to talk the talk. Yeah. And if you can do that in your supervisor's field work, that's a big component that will help you with your testing and things like that, is being able to apply those terms on a regular basis. Yeah. The advantage that you have in your position is that you do work with a whole bunch of behavior analysts who are really fluent, right? . Because we've all been teaching this stuff for 15 years. And I felt the same way. I had a little bit of a different experience in that I had been certified as BCABA prior to be going to grad school. Yeah. And had been working in the field for a little bit. And I'd also been a special education teacher for a few years.
Corey Robertson (12:20):
Before that. So I did have some experience working before I started my master's coursework. But, you know being able to be around people who are constantly thinking that way and talking that way Yeah. Is very helpful. And teaching is a great gig because it just increases that fluency, my understanding of this science. It changes all the time. And even in the way I teach it, there are things that I learned a certain way, but it's not the way I was taught it. Yeah. And it wasn't really correct. And now I go, oh, wait a sec. It's not exactly like that. So I find that very helpful. And that's one of the big things I talk to people. And it's a good point for this idea of being in that post-graduation transition phase, building your behavioral community.
Corey Robertson (13:05):
Yeah. You gotta have your behavioral community. And they could be colleagues, they could be people who are on the same level as you. They could be people who are your former mentors or supervisors or other people that you look up to. But having a network of people to go to when you are scratching your head or when you need a, we call it IOA right. interobserver agreement. Hey, I feel like this is wrong. What do you think? And everybody says Yeah, that's wrong. Oh, okay. Good. But having those people that you can talk with and maybe it's a little bit, 'cause I'm surrounded by a lot of academics as well but I still have some of my friends and colleagues are actively working in the field, you know, full-time. And they appreciate being able to have people to share their language, especially if you work like in school settings where you have a lot of other professionals that aren't quite ingrained in our language and, and our way of thinking and stuff like that.
Corey Robertson (13:51):
It can be hard to get those opportunities. And I think that again, points to fluency. Yeah. That when you're really fluent, you, you can make jokes about these concepts. You can, you're thinking all the time in terms of Your own verbal behavior, right? Like, you sit there and your like, why did I lose my train of thought? What was I thinking about that I wasn't saying, where did that go? You know? And that, those kinds of things. When you really realize that all of that stuff is behavior and is accountable for with a proper analysis. It's just, you know, it's not just a profession. It's really a paradigm shift. It's a way of looking at the world. And it, I think it changes your life immeasurably and unchangeable. You know once you learn this stuff, you can't unsee it, you know?
Maddie Duke (14:35):
Yes. No, totally. You bringing up community made me think about some advice that I had received from a professor during my first semester. I was really struggling with, I was working at a clinic. I was really having a hard time. I was not enjoying anything that I was doing. I was dealing with a lot of burnout and all these things, that are very common in school. Right. And my professor told me that building relationships while in school can be very difficult, especially at work because you may start your role on the same level as other RBTs or whatever, and within a couple of months you may be supervising them and all of these things. And it can get just kind of create some challenging interpersonal dynamics. But if you've graduated now, there's less of that. And so now is really a great time to build your community. Especially if you have had kind of similar to that experience with me. Like, if you've had a hard time building that community in school, that's fine. There is no time, like the present, it now is maybe a better time. Especially if you had those challenges before.
Corey Robertson (15:46):
It takes a little fostering, you know, there's definitely some strategies you can take. I have a couple of students who are reaching out to me as they're studying for their exams and they're reaching out, you know, and they're, they're not in classwork anymore, but I'm not gonna deny them and answer their question. They ask great questions. They're working really hard, and I wanna see them be successful. And I would predict, I mean, they may phase off after they get their, they pass and they, I hope they'll send me an email saying I passed. But, I think that those people are likely to continue to reach out over the years and say, Hey, I was thinking about something, or Here's, you know, what do you think about this? And I hope that I'm always in a position to be able to respond. I'll tell you a great place to make those connections.
Corey Robertson (16:21):
And I'll give you even, our listeners, a way to do it is first of all, attend conferences. Yeah. Local or state conferences. I would highly recommend first. ABAI is a, and APB are fantastic conferences. They're just really large. And I think as a first conference, they would be a bit intimidating. But here's something that my wife told me to do when I first started attending conferences. 'cause She used to work in the business world, and she said, when you get somebody's business card, when you make a connection, you have a conversation at the bar or outside of a talk or wherever you are, and you exchange business cards, write down what you talked about on the back of the card real quick. Jot yourself a little note in real time. And it doesn't have to be on the back of the business card, obviously digital, whatever.
Corey Robertson (17:00):
But make yourself a note and then contact that person afterwards. And I did that. I would reach out and say, Hey, it was such a pleasure meeting you at FABA and I really enjoyed our conversation about parent training or whatever it is, or burnout or whatever. And I hope to see in the future, and just that little follow up a name, a face, an email can start to ignite those connections. And especially if they're more local to you and things like that. People are so darn approachable in this field as a general rule. And so, and they're happy to share, you know, and usually are very generous with their time. So you know, taking those steps, especially if you kind of work in a rural area, if you're a little bit isolated you're not alone. And it really is kind of a small community, even though there's a lot of behavior analysts, it's still kind of a small world, you know on a larger perspective. So you can build those relationships and create that behavioral community for sure.
Maddie Duke (17:55):
Yeah. And people really are,
Corey Robertson (17:57):
They can do it is on our boost group. We have a Facebook group for people studying. And so that's one place where you could start to make some connections to people and reaching out to people who are studying just like you are. So, yeah. A little plug there. Right. Shameless plug.
Maddie Duke (18:07):
We, we love it. We love to see it. Okay. So let's move to this next question. And we've been talking a lot about mastery of concepts. There is to some extent another component of studying for the exam. And that is kind of building these test taking skills depending on your program or how long it's been since you were in your undergrad or even high school. You know, maybe the last time you took a large exam was your SAT or your ACT, right? Like, you may or may not have those test taking skills, but they are important. What, would you say are some like differences between those two concepts? Ideas?
Corey Robertson (18:50):
It is the topography of the behavior, right? And, and maybe even the function too, because, you know, when we look at mastery, we're going to be evoked either by a situation, I see a scenario, I see something happen, and I say, oh, that's a motivating operation. Or that's the thing to do in this situation is this or that. But on a multiple choice test, it's verbal stimuli, right? And then we've gotta respond by selecting the best answer. So there's definitely, I think there's definitely a skillset there. In my role as an instructor for Florida Techs program, I try to embed that in our reviews as we go through the material, because just one of my strengths, I've always been a good test taker some way or another. I'll start with just kind of telling you my general philosophy and then we can kind of get into some specific strategies.
Corey Robertson (19:34):
But my general philosophy about a multiple choice question is playing a detective game? Because the answers right in front of you and you just have to figure out which one it is. And so one of the things I do is, first of all, just remember that somebody wrote the question, probably an old white dude. I'm, let's just say that's just facts, right? Okay. Maybe it's changed now. I'd like to think it's changed now but statistically, more than likely the exam question was written by an old white dude. So what did they want me to think? What were they, where were they trying to get me here? What is it that they're testing? And then using your knowledge of the information to get at the right answer, regardless of the context. Now, specific to studying for the BACB exam or the kinds of questions I think we see regularly.
Corey Robertson (20:18):
First thing is reading carefully, at least twice. I've been teaching with Florida Tech's program since, I wanna say 15 years, but it isn't quite, I've been there since 2007, part-time, at least in 2009, full-time. So it's close to, close to 15 years. And one of the things that I see, one of the things I do is if I read a question too carefully, I will get it wrong. Even at this stage, I mean, I think I'm probably pretty fluent in this stuff, and I will make mistakes. 'cause I missed one word. Yeah. I thought I knew what that question said, but I didn't really read the question. So you really have to take time. And I would say, you know, the two time rule is for native English speakers. Yeah. And I tell our students, Hey, if, if English is your second or third or fourth language, don't be afraid to read even longer if you need to, because you really wanna make sure you're attending to everything and not adding anything.
Corey Robertson (21:04):
Yeah. So we go through the question, read it carefully, look at the question, the answer choices before we start getting into selection mode. Just kind of get a feel for what the problem is. What am I being asked about? What am I assessed on here? Am I being asked to define something? Identify, discriminate between an example, non example, select a best approach, or something like that. What is this question really asking me? And then we can start to settle in, right? Identifying the behavior, the behaving organism, whose perspective we're taking because In every situation, you know, I'm part of your environment, you're part of my environment, so we need to make sure we're analyzing the right behavior. We wanna identify the, you know, the target behaviors responses. We wanna look at any relevant variables, consequences, antecedents, try to classify them as you're going through.
Corey Robertson (21:50):
Okay, I know I'm in a positive reinforcement paradigm or a negative punishment paradigm. Here's how the relevant antecedents may, you know, tuck in. And then I start going through the answer choices. One of the things I always try to do, I call it aplying a 50 50, which is a little nod back to who wants to be a millionaire, when you could call somebody and they'd just take away half their, or I guess it was just a choice, they would take away two of the answers if you had one of those assists left, right. Play the 50 50 eliminate answers, you know, are wrong and justify why it's wrong. I know this one's not right, because that just applies to something different so that you really narrow it down. You can make notes on the certification exam, right? So that you can do that with a whiteboard or whatever.
Corey Robertson (22:29):
Yeah. but just sort of diagramming as you go through. And then, you know, personally, I like to, once I've made my selection, I don't want to go back and change it. I think there's a stage where you start to get into overthinking, well, what about this? What about that? Well, that's where a reread is good. Well, did it say that? Or am I thinking that? Right? but moving on, now, I have to put a disclaimer with that because I had a lovely colleague who reached out to me a long time ago and said, you know, the research doesn't support thatCorey. The research shows that you're just as likely to change your right answer to a wrong one as you are to change a wrong one to a right one. But we only remember the ones that, oh, I had that answer the other way and I changed it.
Corey Robertson (23:05):
Right? Yes. So it's a bias there. But that being said, I think there's something for having a process following that process and then moving on, step away from the question or flag it If you're really not sure and you start questioning yourself, sometimes you may come to another question if you answer questions later that makes you go, oh, wait a second. If that's true. And especially when it's content, like a, like a class test, right? You might go, right, oh, wait, that's right. This is the answer, this one. Which means the other one can't be that. And then I would go back and change it. But I think you have to be careful about overthinking it. So the, the good news is you can practice these things, and that's where mock exams and, and other products that, that allow you to get a, practice on those types of questions that are at that level can be helpful because you can kind of work at that. Another aspect, you know, I want to throw in there when we talk about test strategies is managing your respondent processes.
Maddie Duke (24:02):
Yes.
Corey Robertson (24:02):
A lot of individuals experience test anxiety. And that's something else that you wanna practice dealing with. And I think the first thing that we have an advantage of with as students of behavior analysis is understanding what's happening. Why do I feel this way? Yeah. When I start thinking about the BACB exam, yeah. I have an increase in heart rate. I start perspiring more, I could actually feel a little sick, which means my blood pressure's dropping, right? This is an activation syndrome we've learned about, right? It's just respondent, it's, our lizard brain, if you will, there saying fight or flight, Hey, there's danger, get ready. Right? Which is a lovely evolutionary response if the danger were physical, but unfortunately, it's just letters on a screen, it's symbols. You know what I mean? Right.
Corey Robertson (24:48):
I'm not gonna physically be harmed by the BACB exam. Right. I don't think, unless somehow the keyboard gives you splinter. And so it is, you know, you're in a heightened state because it's fear, right? Basically. Yeah. And stress and all that stuff. Good. But, but the way that your body responds to it isn't gonna help you because all that does is actually suppress decision making in banking, and it enhances physical activity. Right. Your blood is pumping to your extremities, which would be great if you had to fight a bear or run, you know, but Right. But neither are, those are an appropriate response in the situation. So managing that and saying thanks brain. I got this. I find taking deep breaths helps me control my physiology in some way. That doesn't work for everybody. Right. But that's really the goal is to say, Hey, this, this needs to pass and I need to, let my body kind of catch up with the fact that threat is not physical.
Corey Robertson (25:35):
Yeah. and that's something else that students can practice. So if you're taking a mock exam and you're a test anxiety person, what are you gonna do beforehand? Do you do some visualization? Do you do some calm down strategies, those kinds of things. I tell our students in our program, practice those on a weekly basis. If you're still in your courses, every time you sit down for an exam, practice those strategies make, pretend like it's the big thing. Take your exams in a spot where it's going to simulate that, the receiving environment. Right. We've learned about planning for natural contingencies and all these strategies to promote generalization. Well, if you're taking your final exams, or your mock exams on your bed in your pajamas, are you setting yourself up for success when you have to go to a test center and sit at a desk and a table in a strange environment? Obviously you can't take every mock exam in a, in a weird environment, but you could start by sitting at a table and, you know, and kind of simulate some of those things so that you're practicing in a way that that makes sense down the road.
Maddie Duke (26:31):
Yeah. And I mean, there, there are other things you can do too. Like, I know a lot of people start to feel anxiety related to, oh, my time is running out. So, you know, start timing your mock exams and in the back of your head, you're gonna know nothing's gonna happen if I go over time on this exam, but I'm prepping myself for when I am timed. The exam is timed, right?
Corey Robertson (26:56):
Yes. Yeah. But it's a long time. I think it's like three hours or four hours, something like that. Okay. Yeah. One of the things I think I've always said to myself sitting down, I think it's a good point, is when you, when you actually sit down to take a real exam, whether it's a final exam a final program exam, or the BACB certification exam, there's nothing you're gonna do at that moment to prepare. You either know it or you don't. Right? Yeah. And if you don't and you fail, then I, you know, I call it like playing the worst case scenario when people start getting worked up over stuff. It's, well, let's play the worst case scenario. What happens if, if you fail? Well, I would really be upset. Yeah. And I'll be disappointed myself. Yeah. And then what are you gonna do?
Corey Robertson (27:32):
Well, I guess I would sign up to take it again and start studying. Yeah. Okay. So you're gonna take it again. Right. You know, and so we'll deal with that. How bad is that? I guess that's not so bad. I know some people who took it more than two times. Okay. So maybe you have to take it two times. Maybe you have to take it five times. But that's not the end of the world, you know, so you know, I think playing the worst case scenario sometimes can make you feel a little bit better about it and say, Hey, I'm just gonna do this, you know? And when I get what I get in that moment, you know, the worry doesn't help you. And, and you should probably try to eliminate prior to that. If you're building yourself up every time you're studying, worrying about passing the test, then you're just teaching yourself to be anxious. Yeah. So you gotta break that cycle somehow. Right? Yeah. And just get back to what's the goal here? The goal is to demonstrate competency. Do you have it? Let's, let's work on that. You know?
Maddie Duke (28:16):
Yeah. And I would say on that note of failing the first time, it may be helpful to get outside of the exam prep groups. 'cause The narrative on those groups, when people are talking about multiple tests taking, they tend to be very anxious and scared and worried, which is very valid. And absolutely, those are feelings that I would also have. And, you know, you should have a place where you feel safe talking about that. However, when I have been, I follow a lot of behavior analytic Instagram accounts, just as my personal example. I'm sure they're also not on Instagram, but I've seen a lot of more rational, more normalizing conversations around being a two-time test taker, a three time test taker. And it may be helpful to step outside of those groups and see other people who have had to take the exam multiple times and recognize that they're okay and you will be too.
Corey Robertson (29:27):
It's a lot of different skill sets that are out there that all kind of come together to be a really successful professional. Right. And so, even at this stage, you know you might be really good at writing research papers and a terrible test taker. You know, you might be really good at building rapport with students and terrible at talking to parents or vice versa. I've learned people that really have a hard time playing and being fun. Same. And you're right. Yeah. So I know people like that, so, you know, and they have other strengths. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. And nobody's gonna be the master of everything in terms of the task list. Right? So the same thing goes with that. you know, I'm a very good test taker, so it wasn't a concern for me.
Corey Robertson (30:07):
Other people really struggle with it. So I definitely believe that there are people out there who, know their stuff, but they aren't able to demonstrate it in the moment in that way. And that, can be certainly frustrating. It is a hurdle that has to be overcome. But it's not, it's not insurmountable. And at the same time, there are people who are gonna pass that test right away, who really aren't competent in other areas and will need to develop those skills along the way. And I think that's another thing to remember, is that credential is a entry point. Yeah. it's what we have decided is the bare minimum that everybody needs to know in order to hopefully not kill somebody when you start working independently. Right, right. That's a weird way to say it, but that's really what it comes down to.
Corey Robertson (30:47):
Yeah. It's the launching point. It's not, well, now I have my BCBA, I know everything there is to know about ABA I'm the expert now. And then most people I know would be very hesitant to call themselves experts. Right. Yeah. But I would say if you're a person in a room who knows the most about a topic, then you're an expert, right? In some rooms, I would definitely feel comfortable calling myself an expert in other rooms. Not so much. You know? It really depends about what you know. So, I think it just takes, you know, having that perspective takes down your stress level a little bit. You know, Hey, if you didn't pass this time, then you're still working on that mastery level. I will say this though, I think it's important to, if you're a person who has already taken the exam and hasn't been successful or has taken it repeatedly and been successful, I think changing what you're doing to prepare is an important thing.
Corey Robertson (31:32):
And I do see a bit of emphasis, it seems like in the test prep, you know, circles those groups and where students are talking to each other of focusing on those kinds of activities that maybe aren't really the acquisition stage. And that's my concern is there's a difference between an acquisition and fluency building or repetition for maintenance and generalization, those kinds of things. And it, you know so there are some people I've interacted with or have seen, you know their results and said, you know, I think you didn't learn it the first time, and it might be time to go take some additional coursework, maybe Piece together some things or something like that. And every program's different, you know, and there, and that we know that there are some programs out there students are not successful on a large scale in passing the exam.
Corey Robertson (32:17):
That doesn't mean they're not learning good things, it's just whatever it is that isn't preparing them for that. So that's, that's a component as well. Sometimes you gotta say, well, I'm not in the reviewing phase, I'm in the learning phase, and I need to go back to the basics a little bit. So if you, if you're doing the kind of the same thing repeatedly and you're not seeing success, it's a good, it's a good time to change, you know, some things. And that's where data collection comes in, right? Yeah. You know, the, the BACB exam's, one data point, but there are other ways to get some data to say, yeah, what I'm doing isn't resulting is not producing results I want, you know?
Maddie Duke (32:49):
Right. So, can we get a little bit more specific about kind of what those activities are? So I think almost everybody knows that you can take mock exams, but that is not at all the only way that you can study for this exam. So what are some of these other things that students could do? Or if they're, if you're needing to change it up, what are some things that we can do?
Corey Robertson (33:15):
So the mock exam is definitely gonna help students you know, kind of test their skills against an exam, right? Yeah. It's, sort of the idea is a simulation. Most of them will give you some level of feedback by content area, which gives you a sense of where you may be struggling. 'cause There's, you know several different content areas across the exam, and they're all kind of weighted a little bit differently in a number of questions. So that kind of helps in your, if you do need to go back and review or learn for the first time, some of those tasks. So that's definitely one activity. Another one would just be sort of building that fluency Or mastery through guided practice, you know there are products out there that have a lot of items that are built before acquisition and building fluency over time that kind of teach the concept through a couple of different kinds of activities.
Corey Robertson (34:01):
Certainly just reviewing notes rereading through your readings and things like that. For me you know, for my kind of measure of mastering competency was always can I explain it to somebody else, you know, when I was going through school, if it was a concept, can I tell you what positive reinforcement is without looking at my notes? Great. Can I tell you the steps of BST without looking at my notes? Do I feel comfortable when somebody comes to me with a problem of coming up with a solution that makes sense? You know, and then I can talk, you know, bounce that idea off my supervisor and see what that sounds like, you know? To get some feedback maybe before we, because implementing it obviously would be the best way, right? We try something and it works or it doesn't work, but you may not, you know, the clients at risk, so maybe you're just, you're pitching in a role play idea, whatever, you know, Hey, what if we did this?
Corey Robertson (34:46):
How does that sound? You know, those are the, for me are are big deal. So that goes back to again, talking the talk. Yeah. You know, you gotta be able to apply these concepts constantly, constantly be looking at the world as a behavior analyst. I think when you're a meshed like that in it you're living it, I think there's, there it helps. Right. As opposed to just, well, now I gotta think about ABA terms. No, no, no. It's all the time. We're just looking at the world through this behaviors lens. So those are, I am trying to think if there's other thing. Yeah. Talking the talk and just kind of analyzing things on a regular basis. Practice, practice, practice in different forms, and then ultimately, you know, like a mock exam situation where you can kind of assess your skills.
Corey Robertson (35:28):
And in some cases it may just be relearning, you know? Going and taking a another course or, you know, RBT courses can maybe be nice 'cause they teach a lot, lot of the fundamentals, and it's like, it's designed as a 40 hour course. May not be to the level that some folks need, but it is a lot of the early stuff that maybe we start to forget and get away from Yeah. As we move up through our work, you know, so maybe even signing up for a basics like that to say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me get back into what socially mediated negative reinforcement really means and what does it look like, and what are they talking about when they say that so that we can then, you know, really feel comfortable with that terminology.
Maddie Duke (36:03):
Yeah. And I would add, you know, once you really do start to get very comfortable with that terminology, once you start to be able to explain those things, I find it really helpful to look for examples in everyday life I live with somebody and what kind of schedule of reinforcement am I give? Like, is it in place when sometimes they come home from work and I'm still working and sometimes they come home from work and I'm not working and are, are there SDs to let them know what you know and what kind of, you know, like finding those kinds of things. And I think that's really useful. Maybe not so much for, like, you're not going to necessarily find a test question that's asking about those exact examples, but I think it's really useful.
Corey Robertson (36:54):
It's connecting with it though. Yeah. It is Connecting with it and just seeing it that way all the time and, and writing examples even, you know, one of the things I always tell students is if they're struggling, I say, well, I need you to start, this is something Eb Blakely used to say is, engage in topography, start behaving. Yeah. And let's see what you got. You know, so sometimes people say, well, I'm really struggling with this. Well, give me an example of it.. Give me a non-example of it, compare it to something else, or contrast it with something else. Tell me what's going on there and, and let's see how you do with that. So, you know, generating examples can be helpful as well. And that's again, where a community can be helpful. You know, going back again, shameless plug our, our Boost Facebook group we we're trying to throw a lot of examples up there and, and different ways for students to engage with the material.
Corey Robertson (37:36):
And I I think we all, will be the first to admit that it, it's not test level. We have our purchase products for that, but in those, those free resources that we're trying to just generate thinking about behavior and helping people think about the task list in different ways. But, but I'd love to see more students coming up with examples. Hey here . You know, while we're on a content area, Hey, let's see your examples of this. Come up with something, you know, talk about how you're applying this to your life. Whatever it may be. You know, if you, if you've got yourself on a self-management plan to study for the BACB exam, let's hear about that. And what are those principles at play? How's that work? That's something I definitely did a lot of in supervision.
Corey Robertson (38:13):
I don't know all supervisors do this, but every time my supervisees or trainees would come up with a good solution, I would say, that's great. Now tell me why you think that will work. Explain that to me. I need you to tell me. Well, by, by reducing the work when they come in in the morning, it creates an abolishing operation for escape. We're not gonna push them so hard when they come in. 'cause We know sometimes they're grumpy from the, the car rides. So we're easing them into it. And that's an EO an AO for escape, and that means it's gonna abate, escape, maintain behavior. And I say, now you get it. Now you can understand, because sometimes people come up with a good solutions, but they can't, you know, express why it's the right solution. And that's really, I think when you get to that level, you know, when I say talk on the talk, that's what I mean, you know?
Corey Robertson (38:55):
Yeah. Being able to clarify why that procedure works. So that's something, you know, again, if you're working, you could be doing this constantly, but you've gotta be talking the talk. Yeah. And I, I think supervisors have a duty to push that a little bit more. Yes. We, we constantly talk about, you know, translating the covenant to quote Richard Fox and, and, you know, and being able to express our, our language in ways that are accessible to our, you know, consumers our parents, our teachers, and all that. Yeah. But at the same time, when you're developing professionals, they need to develop that language and they need to be comfortable switching back and forth. So pushing that a little bit is, could be helpful as well.
Maddie Duke (39:31):
Yeah. And just a thought that I had while you were talking about that, if you don't have a supervisor who is able or willing or whatever to push you in those ways, I was thinking that what you were describing your, like what, how you were describing your students coming up with those examples and justifying them. They're thinking, it's a lot like how I write question feedback. So again, another plug, if you go onto our Facebook group, we provide a lot of very complex in-depth, that's the word in-depth feedback for every question that we post. And I write most of the feedback for those questions. And sometimes I need to like, refresh myself on the terms. And if I'm writing why something is incorrect, I'm like, oh, I, I don't know if I'm totally solid on this, need to go make sure. So if you need a model, you can go look at our Facebook group. But I think doing something like that and being very in depth about this is why, this is not why that, that would be a really good way to practice.
Corey Robertson (40:42):
Yeah. And it definitely sharpens your skills as you behave around. Right. Again working in the academic side of things, like writing items is a tough skill it's a, it's a really tough skill. And it definitely takes some honing over time and some feedback. I hope we've been gracious to you with that as well. Oh. You know, sometimes I see, I'm like, oh, we we're missing some detail here, but it's only because I've learned that way over time that yeah, you gotta have a specific things in there for it to be a good question. I see items all the time. I go, yeah, this is not, this is, this question's not gonna prepare you for certification. Because it's missing some things that we would need in there to be able to say, you know, this or that.
Corey Robertson (41:18):
We had a good example of that just recently with a, an example of extinction where it said that the person kept doing the thing, but it didn't say they increased it. So really maybe it wasn't extinction burst, given the details. I had one last night where I was trying to give an example of automatic reinforcement regarding popping a pimple, kind of gross. But but the way I wrote the question, it didn't really, it leaned the student toward the automatic positive, like the sight of the stuff that comes out. Maybe it was reinforcing it, not just the relief. I'm like, yeah, it's not really in the item, but if you've ever had a pimple, you know, you're trying to get rid of it. Right. You're
Maddie Duke (41:50):
Trying to get,
Corey Robertson (41:51):
Yeah. It's annoying, right? Yeah. Even though that's not, it doesn't really go away when you mess with it right away anyway. I think there's still, I think it's a negative reinforcement, but looking at the item I had written, I had to give students the benefit of the doubt. Say, yeah, well, I didn't write that very well. It could be better. And I, we do that not only with our items, but in our courses as well. We're constantly revising things based on student feedback, you know, and with our boost products, we are doing item analysis and looking at the performance of those items to make sure that they're strong. Because you want good questions, you gotta start with good material. And that require, it's tricky. And that's why the reading of it is tricky because there are a lot of details that you need to attend to, and there's usually some information that's irrelevant. Shouldn't be, but, often there is. And so it, knowing when, okay, that part, it doesn't matter here. That's a trick. You know, I just need to focus on this part, you know?
Maddie Duke (42:42):
Yeah, yeah. Especially with ethics questions, those are Oh yeah. My favorite to write. But they're also very difficult to write with the
Corey Robertson (42:51):
Yeah. And, and, you know, I don't know what the, what the rule would be for a perfectly written question, but I will say that it seems to me in my experience that with ethics questions, there's always one answer choice that's too extreme. And there's always one that just isn't enough. So if you're looking at an ethics scenario and the, one solution is report them to the BACB immediately, you know, or report them to be fired. Like, well, maybe not, because, you know, maybe you're just supposed to talk to them first about it, try to resolve it yourself. And the other thing would be, what's not my business? Let it go. You know? That kind of thing. And that's not the right solution either. We have, we have responsibility to each other, but those are tricky because it's what's what's the best course of action, right?
Corey Robertson (43:31):
Yeah. But, but that being said, even though people will describe ethics as gray area, sometimes the code is in black and white, you know? Our values, are pretty, you know, clearly you know, written. So we can still come to agreement on what the right course of action should look like, you know, in most cases. Yeah. And it's multiple choice, so it's gonna, again, what's the best answer here? If I don't like any of the choices, which one was the author? Thinking was the right answer at the end of the day, right. Is really the answer. Right. Yeah.
Maddie Duke (43:59):
Do you have more that you wanna say on supervised field work? Or do you feel like we covered that question earlier?
Corey Robertson (44:06):
We hit that a bit. You know, I, again, I think if you can use it to really, you know, apply the concepts and apply the practice and understand how things work, that it's a big part of preparing for the exam even maybe even bigger. But I think we did a pretty good job of, of touching on that.
Maddie Duke (44:22):
Okay. Awesome. So then let's just go to our last question here. Unless we come up with other things we wanna cover. What is Boost? Okay.
Corey Robertson (44:32):
So Boost is our ABA technologies line of test prep products. And there's a couple of different things that we have there, and we're developing more as we, as we go. We're really excited about this. Yeah, we're really excited about this product line. But the first component of Boost, I would say would probably just be our mock exam. And that's just an opportunity to take a 175 question exam that tries to prepare you for the BACB certification exam. We write it in, in a similar format. Not, I won't wanna say format to the BACB exam, but the BACB actually tells you if you go on exam information, it will tell you exactly how many questions in each content area there are right. On that exam. And so we've, we've kind of mapped it out that way, and so that it is, we, we hope it's a good approximation
Corey Robertson (45:15):
Of the content that will be covered. No organization is gonna guarantee you that this is like the BACB exam or certification exam, and they should be saying that, we won't say that, but we're writing questions that should prepare students and give them an accurate sense of where they stand. The other thing is to just to look at the kind of the score when you're taking those exams And knowing that the pass criteria for the BACB certification exam is 77%. So you definitely wanna be scoring above 80% on your on mock exams or things like that to be comfortable, maybe even higher. And you will see some variants and don't freak out about that, but, you know, you kind of wanna know where your mean is, and so you know, you're in a comfortable level, or I'd really like to increase it before I go sit for the real exam.
Maddie Duke (46:01):
Is the BACB, is that really 77%? I thought it was
Corey Robertson (46:05):
77% is the required. Yeah. And that is buried somewhere in a newsletter, you kind of have to go back a little bit into the newsletter. When they set the standards. Every so often they have a panel of experts well, you know, a certificate you know, BACBs, BCBAs rather subject matter experts who say, Hey, here's the, here's how, how well you should have to do on this exam to get into the profession. Yeah. and it's changed over the years, but usually around that range, I think it's usually around 75%. So now it's, it's currently at 77% percent. So that's a good, like, you know, marker. And that's why we tell students, Hey, 80% or better, 80% to do 80% consistently, you should be comfortable. So we have the mock exam. We also have a product called Mock 10, which again has a mock exam, but then the opportunity to go through sets of questions for each content area.
Corey Robertson (46:52):
And there are multiple sets of 10 questions for each mock exam. That's where the 10 comes in. And so that's nice because you get a way to kind of assess yourself pre practice, do a mock exam, do some practice opportunities where you're gonna get that feedback and again, see why the right answer's, right. If the wrong answer's wrong, get a little practice in each area, beef up on the area you might be struggling with. And then there's a, another mock exam at the end which is a nice little model, pre-test practice, some post-test.
Maddie Duke (47:23):
And that one actually has two different exams, but one of them you take twice. So one of them is your pre-test, you take it again as your post-test, and then there's a separate exam where it's that same breakdown that you had talked about where it maps onto the BACBs, like map, whatever. But it's completely new questions. So it's like a generalization.
Corey Robertson (47:48):
That's right. So that's right. So actually you get three tests, well, it's not really three tests, it's two tests, but three opportunities, right? Yeah. So pre-tests post-test on the same test. And you're right, totally forgot about that generalization exam, right? So then you got that and then we now have a bundle where you can actually save a little bit if you do all both those products together. So that would actually give you four tests, well, three tests, but four, right? Yes. because you do a pretest, you do the post-test, you do the generalization, and then you'd have this whole other mock exam to take. Yeah. And that's a good deal and a lot of practice. The product that we've got in the works that we're working on is and this won't roll out this year, but maybe next year early, we have a, an automated guided review.
Corey Robertson (48:25):
And what that product will include that we don't have currently in our approach or on our products, is the teaching component. And we do find a lot of students still do need to learn this stuff either first time or relearn it to somebody build mastery. And so we're working on it on a product where students will be able to take a pre-test, see how they're doing, and then access instruction relevant to those areas and build that practice over time before usually attempting another mock exam at the end or something like that. So we're excited about that product. And then lots of free stuff that we try again to you know give to our students and our followers and all that. So we've got some reference sheets, we call them Easy Sheets. Those are available for download. If you, if you give us your email, you know, so we can keep you up to date and stuff like that, We've got that
Maddie Duke (49:11):
Sorry, I keep interrupting you. I apologize. But with those EZ sheets, you, they're available for limited time for free, or you can get all of them at once with purchase of Mock 10. Oh, okay. So if you want all of them buy Mock 10,
Corey Robertson (49:28):
Buy them in a pack. Oh, they're 10. That's right. They're in there. That's right. That's right. And then we've got, so that the Easy sheets, the test A tracker, we've got a tracker that kind of tells you where each content is covered in the Cooper, Herron and Heward textbook, which is a source that a lot of students use. We do, we've got that. Oh, we just came up with some tabs that helps you tab, and those are really cool looking. And then we're gonna be, I'm working right now actually on a SAFMED deck, a flashcard deck specific to just review. We've got SAFMEDS are a big part of our program. And I know that some of our test prep students have been purchasing some of those along the way, the ones that go with our courses. But we're gonna have a deck that's just kind of dedicated to the boost line. That'll be kind of everything that you need to have in one spot. So we're working on that, and that'll roll out later this year.
Maddie Duke (50:15):
Right, because I remember I bought one of the decks, I'm not sure which one. We have six, I think, and they're kind of like all over the place. Like I remember the one that I had bought had like concepts and principles stuff and ethics code things, but I had bought it at like the very end of the fourth edition. And so I had like the last edition of the ethics code. And so I'd like kind of get rid of those cards, and Sure. If you bought it today, that would not be a problem. But I had that issue. No, no, no.
Corey Robertson (50:46):
But well, some of them are they're kind of specific to the courses as I was digging through them. They make sense if you're taking the class, but if you were not in the class, it'd be a little bit hard to follow. You know, they're, in some cases they're like, this is, they're different features of things. So it might not just be the definition. It might be, how do we use this? Or how, you know some of those I'm trying to eliminate as I go through that filtering process to make sure that our, you know, somebody who's, who maybe went to a different program and just wants our Test prep products has a set that's functional for them. So that's, there's some consideration in doing that. But yeah, a lot of products there, again, all of this is designed to help students boost their confidence, you know, boost their test score, but it's not like you're looking for a number there, it's just pass or fail.
Corey Robertson (51:26):
Right? But, but you know, again boosting their confidence and boosting their likelihood of success once they finish coursework. You know? 'cause We know that people are, are putting their energies into that, you know, once they finish their coursework, they're a little stressed about the exam. So we wanna do everything we can to help 'em. And then you know, hopefully be part of our ABA tech family and our Boost family for life, you know we're a company that provides a lot of education and, and resources to behavioral analysts. So we hope that you know, when people see what it is we do and how we do it, they'll, they'll wanna become lifelong learners with us and, and get their CEs with us and, and meet us at conferences and have dinner with us and all that fun stuff, you know.
Maddie Duke (52:02):
Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean I can attest that ABA tech is like a family. I mean, you can too, 'cause you've been here longer than me, but as a newer member of the family, I do feel like it's a family. And you don't have to, there's no waiting period. There's no, we'll, like you, after this amount of time,
Corey Robertson (52:26):
Well, welcome with a hug, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes.
Corey Robertson (52:27):
Yeah, I think so. You know, I, it is, it is a really cool place to work. We got a lot of really smart people and, and who are care, you know, a lot of dedicated people. And and then one of the nice things I think about our company and the way we work is we, we get highly qualified people and then we get outta their way, you know, let 'em do what they do best. And I think you've definitely been a, an example of that. 'cause You've, you've come a long way at a very short time with ABA Tech, and I appreciate all the efforts and all the wonderful things that you're doing here related to social media related to test prep and all that stuff. So yeah. Well,
Maddie Duke (53:02):
I don't know if I would call myself that expert, but I, I do enjoy the ability I've had to kind of learn from different places and then implement here. So it's been a fun time.
Corey Robertson (53:19):
Try some stuff, right? Yeah. And see what happens. And then going back to that's kind of what supervised field work is, and becoming a behavior analyst a little bit, you know, it is trying some stuff and seeing what happens. You know, we take data, we have some Guidelines.
Corey Robertson (53:29):
But we're just trying to solve problems, you know, we're trying to help people. And, and that's all there is to it is, well, what if we did this? You know? And so our approach is the same way with, with test prep is, hey, well, what if we gave students this? What if they Had this product to do? What if we did this? And let's see what happens, and let's collect some data and see how it does. You know? So yes, it's a learning process for us as well.
Maddie Duke (53:51):
Only you could see, maybe, maybe that'd be a fun thing to share in our Facebook group. All of the graph that we compile of here's how we can analyze students' learning and identify how well we're hopefully helping, and let's look at it and let's see what we can do next. It's really cool.
Corey Robertson (54:10):
You know, I like that. And also just some of the stuff that goes into developing these products so people can appreciate it. There, there are sometimes differences in, in what you get and, and quality and, and you know, I think that one of the things that ABA technologies brings to the table is that wealth of expertise. You know, we've got a, a team of, of different people who've been at this for a long time, understand the requirements you know how we test our history, the concepts, the principle, you know, all that stuff. And, and it goes, and I think it shows an equality of our product, our reputation for the, the courses that we've, you know, helped develop for Florida Tech is, is certainly not withstanding. And I, I hope that people will see that in our other products as well. That there really is a difference at ABA tech.
Maddie Duke (54:54):
Yes, definitely. All right. Well, do you have anything else that you wanted to cover?
Corey Robertson (55:01):
I don't think so. I hope this has been informative for folks that are prepping for the exam. And we just wanna let you know that we're with you until you do. So reach out and let us know how we can help you.
Maddie Duke (55:12):
Yeah. and if you have other ideas for podcast episodes, we would love to hear it. We'll have our email addresses in the description box, and if you have ideas or questions or thoughts or, I don't know, angry reviews, hopefully you don't have those, but you wanna send them over. Go for it. So,
Corey Robertson (55:35):
As I say, at the end of my classes, any compliments, concerns, criticisms, anything at all. Right. All the Cs.
Maddie Duke (55:42):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thank you for listening to Boost You. Be sure to come back next week for another episode of Operant Innovations and come back next month for another episode of Boost U.